tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38764987.post6963837639589560014..comments2023-07-15T04:20:16.543-05:00Comments on Almost Diamonds: The End of Offense?Stephanie Zvanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15182490110208080002noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38764987.post-91774148936006652622009-04-15T09:54:00.000-05:002009-04-15T09:54:00.000-05:00I've never actually looked into the systems at Ama...I've never actually looked into the systems at Amazon, but as a customer my impression has been that they were very robust and well-designed compared to most of the software out there.<br /><br />The biggest problem, IMO, is that these new, very successful, companies grow too fast too keep their corporate culture intact. They bring in a lot of professionals experienced in the traditional way of doing things, and end up with all the problems of the more established companies.<br /><br />Microsoft (IMO) is an early case in point, and Amazon is probably another. I would expect that in the last decade, they've gone from an innovator in systems development philosophy to a carbon copy of most other big companies (and government agencies), with most of the same problems.<br /><br />The biggest problem with Internet software is quality control. There are two reasons for this (at least):<br /><br />1. Most Internet software development came out of the PC environment, where quality control standards were very late to develop. Good quality control adds tremendous costs to a project, which usually aren't factored in up-front.<br /><br />2. Internet quality control standards are usually modeled off of the older mainframe-based quality control, but the environments are very different and risks that are negligible with mainframe applications can be critical with Internet applications. Every application has to be retested with each new browser release, on a schedule that the application owner can't control.<br /><br />Of course, these don't seem to be the problem here, instead it's a matter of understanding the risks associated with driver-type tables and their maintenance. I suspect what happened was that the issues with a user making a mistake while maintaining a table was brought up, and the systems people said "it's not our problem: make sure the users don't make mistakes". This is the traditional systems response to such issues, and while Amazon may have been innovative enough to deal with it early on, by now I suspect their systems departments have been so infected with the tradition that they did just what every other company I've ever heard of did (in this regard): ignored the problem.<br /><br />See also my <A HREF="http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/04/amazon_dot_com_is_a_different.php#comment-1567196" REL="nofollow">post</A> at Greg Laden's Blog.AKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10905636789614137068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38764987.post-3689873431442328152009-04-14T21:34:00.000-05:002009-04-14T21:34:00.000-05:00AK, the more I know about how Amazon runs their sy...AK, the more I know about how Amazon runs their systems, the more it sounds as though they're held together with baling wire and twine. It's actually a little scary.Stephanie Zvanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15182490110208080002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38764987.post-6663901709063936822009-04-14T15:54:00.000-05:002009-04-14T15:54:00.000-05:00thanks for this great post and the links. fail ind...thanks for this great post and the links. fail indeed.Dr. Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07282370723678000525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38764987.post-570210058873670292009-04-14T11:46:00.000-05:002009-04-14T11:46:00.000-05:00Two comments:
First, IMO most people who find stu...Two comments:<br /><br />First, IMO most people who find stuff "offensive" are more interested in keeping <B>other people</B> from seeing it than themselves. They use various excuses (especially regarding children), but they're really closet Nazi's.<br /><br />Second, I have many years' experience with software development, especially when it comes to user-maintained tables and other global parameter systems. The only solution I know of that's generally reliable is to set up a <B>test system</B> for user maintenance, a <B>separate</B> test system from the one used for software upgrades. This is very expensive, both in terms of software/hardware, and user time/training. Worse yet, it <B>never</B> gets included in the up-front cost estimates.<br /><br />Amazon can certainly afford to set such a thing up, I'm disappointed (but not completely surprised) they didn't do it up front, or at least in response to some less glaring error (there must have been a few). But I doubt most of the sites that aren't selling anything (besides advertising) will bother to pay for it, even if it's available in whatever packages they're using.AKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10905636789614137068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38764987.post-83765539706475080822009-04-14T07:59:00.000-05:002009-04-14T07:59:00.000-05:00However, if the content is user-controlled for a l...<I>However, if the content is user-controlled for a large group of people, you will see anti-censorship folks getting in there and gaming the system.</I>That could be easily dealt with by putting actual controls in the hands of the organizations, rather than the general public.DuWayne Braytonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04074683871047219790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38764987.post-84698344696884399682009-04-14T07:32:00.000-05:002009-04-14T07:32:00.000-05:00DuWayne, this situation is going to require at lea...DuWayne, this situation is going to require at least as much attention after we fully understand what happened as it does now. I wouldn't worry about having to wait. You'll just end up with a more informed post. This one is outdated already (see Peggy's link).<br /><br />I like the idea of a portal. If Amazon runs it, it might even not die like the last one. However, if the content is user-controlled for a large group of people, you will see anti-censorship folks getting in there and gaming the system. Most of them will be nineteen, and it will be a bad thing to do, but it will happen.Stephanie Zvanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15182490110208080002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38764987.post-43746850860997856852009-04-14T06:49:00.000-05:002009-04-14T06:49:00.000-05:00There exists a definite temptation to be an ass an...There exists a definite temptation to be an ass and just whack a lot of religious material into the same oblivion, but I do hope that doesn't actually happen. I can definitely see very reasonable justifications for it - some that would indicate utility beyond catharsis. But the bottom line is that it would make "us" no better than "them."<br /><br />This (well, actually Greg's post) is the first I heard of all of this. I am definitely going to write Amazon about it and make it clear that I want to continue to use them (which I assuredly do) as a customer and at some point as an author, but that this policy would definitely prohibit me from doing so. <br /><br />As an aside, I think a very good alternative to using this sort of generalized system, would be to allow organizations to create amazon fronts that allow them to do the same sort of flagging, but only for people who enter through that organization's portal. At that point people who find sanctimonious prickery offensive, could make that harder to find and people who are terrified that their children (or husband/wife) might learn about Teh Gay, can be sanctimonious pricks.<br /><br />Ahhh, so many things to blog about and not nearly the time. Though semester ends soon and I have a couple weeks - I just hope I don't fill all that time with other stuff.DuWayne Braytonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04074683871047219790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38764987.post-40661595367636389602009-04-13T20:29:00.000-05:002009-04-13T20:29:00.000-05:00I'm hoping so, too, Peggy. I'm also hoping that mo...I'm hoping so, too, Peggy. I'm also hoping that more people settle down a bit (not stopping demands that this be fixed, but cutting out the "Amazon has told us three things that are not exactly identical; there must be a conspiracy!") before Amazon decides that they've already lost with this group and have nothing to gain by being good citizens. I think it's happening, but the continuing froth disturbs me.<br /><br />I also can't see any way to stop this from happening in the future without a user-driven system. Anything that is more universal will be subject to the same problems they're encountering now. I'm sorry for the people who were delisted and felt threatened, but I'm almost glad it happened when it did. This is a weakness in the model that needed to be exposed.Stephanie Zvanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15182490110208080002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38764987.post-36652675988776580642009-04-13T19:09:00.000-05:002009-04-13T19:09:00.000-05:00While it's looking like the deranking of books was...While it's looking like the deranking of books was likely due to incompetence rather than malice (see <A HREF="http://blog.seattlepi.com/amazon/archives/166329.asp" REL="nofollow">here</A>), I'm hoping that the whole FU does result in a user-driven preference system like you describe. Two things that became clear to me is that "offensive" is in the eye of the beholder, and there is no easily automated way of determining whether such content is present in a book unless you eliminate broad categories (e.g., "anything remotely related to positive depictions of homosexuality"). <br /><br />I'd like to think that the massive response to Amazon's fail will have a positive impact. It's like the mirror image of one of those Focus on the Family anti-gay letter-writing campaigns.Peggy Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18360669414917755737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38764987.post-49295520280311311692009-04-13T14:55:00.000-05:002009-04-13T14:55:00.000-05:00I was very close to going there in the post. :) In...I was very close to going there in the post. :) In the end, I decided that it was all equally true for any other type of moralist, too, so I didn't.Stephanie Zvanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15182490110208080002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38764987.post-55888019595272180922009-04-13T14:53:00.000-05:002009-04-13T14:53:00.000-05:00Of course, none of them read. If they did they wou...Of course, none of them read. If they did they would know what was in that bible of theirs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com